In a wide-ranging audience Q&A, experts Davitha Tiller, Head of Social and Integrated Communication at HAVAS and Molly Soloff, SVP of Influencer Marketing at Derris, broke down the complexities of influencer marketing—from measuring ROI and sourcing talent to negotiating contracts and evaluating long-term partnerships.
These tips are part of "The Influencer/Creator Economy: A More Impactful, Engaged Partnership."
This session was part of the PRNEWS Pro workshop "Social Media and Influencer Marketing for PR."
Watch the full session at this link.
Full transcript:
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Well thanks ladies. We'll get in a couple questions now. I know we talked about this a little bit, about ROI...tracking ROI from influencer marketing...is there a specific way to track numbers and dollars returned?
[DAVITHA TILLER]
It's tough because there's no one specific way, I don't think cause it looks so different for different brands, right? Like depending on what like are they selling online...Are they not Like that's a completely different story Um eh you know..to be honest like a lot of the time when it comes to like actually linking POS data for example we rely on our clients a lot to like really come to the table with how we how we track that and how the the attribution works. When it's online it's so much easier, I mean UTM tracking obviously like you know using the appropriate links to the appropriate places and being able to see the data directly um that's quite simple. It's less of a of a complex journey. Uh but then there's obviously you know influencers who may not be directly driving to a point of sale whether that be online or physical or anywhere. Um, and in that case it's harder to track the direct ROI but you can definitely see spikes. I mean, we had an influencer um post uh about a product the other day for one of our beauty brands and the product was sold out within TWO days of that post. Um and and that consistently happens with this influencer, so we know that that's a very that's a high converter. Um, but it's not a direct uh attribution model in the same way.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Mm-hmm, great. Molly any any thoughts on that or..?
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
No completely agree with what Davitha said.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Okay, Cool. All right this is a good one here. Uh best way to find social influencers... Is this mostly manual or is there great software to find and target these people?
[DAVITHA TILLER]
Clear- Yeah Gen AI. Being internet obsessed I think is what I would say.
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
Yeah, another tool we use is called Settr, S-E-T-T-R. Um, it's a newer tool. It's an AI tool and essentially what it does is help you create lookalikes. So for example and it can filter it based on like really specific data. So if there's an influencer that you've loved working with um, either their content's really great or they personally have an audience that really resonates um with your audience, it will help you find people based on whatever criteria you're looking at, um, that are similar to that person. So we use that a lot in terms of just like, honestly in terms of ideation. Um so you know helping us brainstorm ,helping us think through, you know who is that, but then ultimately a lot of it is all of us just having internet brain rotm, and just loving to be online and being obsessed with the internet.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Yeah, I feel like uh just going in and exploring the platform sometimes is is one of the best ways to find what you need. Let's see...Good question a good question...So next one oh ho this is a fun one. What are the legal terms and conditions brands need to take into account when partnering with influencers creators et cetera?
[DAVITHA TILLER]
A lot of legal questions. Yeah, we should've asked what was it Sean from legal...We should have had him on or her on this call. Um it'll I I don't know Molly I think it looks different for every partnership and brand in a way Exclusivity- Yeah like usage terms from...
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
Usage yeah indemnity you know it really depends based on the brand I would say the term that should be coming from you as a marketer versus your legal team is usage. Um that's probably the thing that it's you know most important for you to get clear. Um if you know where are you gonna be using this, how long do you wanna use it for. Do you need the rights to edit it, and you know put it in other places. That's really a question legal can't totally answer for you, and is a big um is a big price consideration. It's like one of the biggest levers that gets pulled when you're doing negotiations is where is this living for how long. Uh so I would say usage is probably at least for this group of people um the most one for you to get really clear on versus the other ones are probably more important in partnership with your legal team.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
That is an interesting thing I never thought about that. So when an influencer for example or creator does a post say with a you know a product does...do those posts tend to live indefinitely usually or no?
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
No I mean it you can put in your contract that it needs to stay up on your profiles you can't remove it- but um infinite usage rights are so expensive. Yeah Um they are um we and also like unless it's for a really specific thing it's not useful to pay for um because there's content fatigue after probably anywhere from 3 to 12 months.
[DAVITHA TILLER]
Hm But to your point Nicole cause I think there's like when we think about usage it's like usage f- by the brand, So like uh you know where are you gonna be using it in paid? Are you just gonna be using it organically? Which channels are you gonna be using it across and for how long? And so typically like usage terms look anywhere from like 6 months to 12 months you know sometimes can go longer but it it it really also depends on the campaign life cycle. And then in terms of content staying live on the influencer's channel some influencers push back on that and they say that they wanna remove it after a certain period of time Hm Some brands are okay with that some are not And so some will you know demand that it stays up and then not work with influencers who are not willing to do that So it kinda depends on what the brand is comfortable with.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
That's interesting I feel like the influencer would wanna keep it up just to kind of- Yeah sh- sh- show it as like a portfolio of the different things that they've done, But I get it Like then it you know might pigeonhole them and and not- Mm-hmm leave them open for other- partnerships.
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
Of the many things like I I wish I could just like megaphone to influencers asking them to do like that's one. Another one is to put a headshot an up-to-date headshot pinned to the top of their profile that I can- pull and put into a deck. Like that is the number one thing I would love to tell influencers to do. There are so many times where a brand will say no to an influencer because they like don't get a good vibe from them from a photo right Like or they don't think that they're professional or you know luxury enough or whatever enough And so like that is one of the number one things I would ask influencers to do I know no one asks that but that is what I would ask them.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Oh that's interesting. Um this is a good question here...What are some pitfalls to avoid when working with content creators?
[DAVITHA TILLER]
Um I mean inefficiencies. I think honestly Like there can be so much inefficiency. We were talking about this Molly and I before too, Like depending on the level of influencer right, Cause if we're talking content creators specifically I think your biggest thing is to think about like how much creative liberty are they going to have Like some influence- some creators like to really ideate their own concepts and they want complete creative freedom in that process and some brands love that and want to do that. Some other brands don't. So knowing what kind of a partnership this is going to be upfront is really important because then you can minimize a lot of the back and forth and iterations and edits you know. And if you know what your what your non-negotiables are creatively, like for example we had an influencer the other week who, you know, we had a non-negotiable...that product needed to show in the first three seconds Like that's pretty typical, Um you know branding-needs to show up very early on.
We were gonna use this in page so even more important and that influencer just did not meet the requirement after multiple rounds of iterations and kept putting it in like you know 5 6 seconds et cetera So that is something that I think you know being really firm and clear about that upfront so that later we can go back and say No this was always the requirement this was always in the brief and this was the non- non-negotiable and there are other things where there was liberty creative liberty and things that we wanna you know uh we're very happy to like workshop and ideate together So having those very clear upfront I think minimizes the inefficiencies.
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
Um yeah and I would say if understanding how comfortable you are giving a creator creative freedom I think- hat is like a big thing. Like many influencers creators are creative themselves right? Like they know what resonates with their audience. They can take an idea and you know flip it to what makes sense for them, for their content style, for the people who follow them. I think that if you want something so so specific if you are not comfortable with iteration or um you know building on top of ideas you have probably working with creators and influencers is not the right path for you um, because they are not gonna be happy if they do not have that creative freedom to do what they know how to do best. And you just have to be comfortable giving them a little bit of rope, um to you know build what they think is right.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
And that's okay too. Like sometimes you might go through the process, and be like You know what This I don't think this is the right route for us to go Um- Yeah you know Maybe we shouldn't be using an influencer or a creator on this Um you know maybe we should just go back to like our original plan and that's okay too I mean it's all about discovery and process and and all of that and I I think uh I think that's important for people to remember too. Like even if you're you know you're going through it you're you've got the strategy you're figuring things out but you know it's okay to pull back too um- Totally otherwise you'd waste everybody's time. you know Um this is like I don't know how if this one's easy to under to uh answer but how do you go about negotiating price for influencer marketing?
[DAVITHA TILLER]
Mm I love this one 'cause I love negotiation. Um I think uh negotiation is like an art. It really is. And l- you you know that's why I think having creators first of all on staff is very helpful 'cause you get the that like real perspective of like what's the latest of the latest that they're getting right But also we have like we have talent agents on staff too. So we have people who have R- relationships are so critical in negotiation right, And if you kinda know people more intimately um whether that's like a talent agent, whether it's a manager depending uh on the level um you know that really helps because you kind of have that starting point of knowing where you can you know come in, and then how you can negotiate. And I think like having a really um having a clear negotiation strategy with that you have agreed upon with the client is pretty important. Like where are we willing, what is our range right that we're willing to to sit within. Um and then what are we willing to forego or to sacrifice if we need to sacrifice something—which typically is the case. Like we have a list of deliverables that we would like to get um, but what are are the must-haves versus where are we willing to sort of be flexible? And then that way we can negotiate the deliverables in line with the price which sounds basic, but sometimes not knowing that information can really set you up for failure in a negotiation.
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
I think also I agree with all of that but the first time you're negotiating- one building relationships with talent managers agents whoever outside of "I need something from you," is critical um like knowing them, you know getting to know them understanding what their priorities are what their talent's priorities are what they wanna work on right. Like if someone's really passionate about a brand I just had this happen recently where somebody was like they wouldn't normally take this but they love the brand and are dying to work with you guys. Like having those kinds of open conversations regularly is just really important.
I'd say the other thing and what I always try to do is be like "Look if this goes well there there's only opportunity for more," right So like if we leave this right and we've both felt very successful and felt like this has gone really well there's only ever opportunity for more and that's really helpful the first time you're working with somebody because you're both trying to feel it out Is their audience gonna resonate with it Is your audience gonna resonate with it Is it gonna drive value for both of you And I think understanding things like that is al- also very helpful.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Great Mm-hmm Uh last question. This goes by really fast all the time. How do you determine whether a creator is the right long-term partner versus a one-off campaign fit Do you wanna you wanna go first Molly or I can continue with...
[MOLLY SOLOFF]
Yeah I mean I think that I always recommend working with people in a one-off capacity before investing in a longer campaign with them. Um I think that it is a big commitment to you know bring somebody on as a partner. Um so seeing Because it's beyond just like does their content perform and you know uh will they achieve the goals. Do you guys work together well? Do they really love the brand? Are they um really excited to help you guys grow? Do they wanna be part of the process like having a real sense of like how good of a tactical partner they're going to be for a long term? You can't really fully know unless you're working together. Um and we do this for clients a lot where at the end of a campaign, we will give them a list of "Who do you continue working with In what capacity? And who should you not work with again?" right, based on how they were in this working experience. I would say that's something but then there's also times like um Shay Mitchell who I know has a wonderful partner right.
So you guys are working with her in a bigger capacity so that makes a lot of sense But I think it's it is really you know understanding both how they're gonna perform with you but also how they're gonna work with you Um because if someone you know makes it a really really difficult process to work with them if they say no to everything if you know you're wasting time money and energy on the backend right just trying to get something done like they're probably not a good partner Um so it is you know both that like behind the scenes and in front of the scenes uh consideration in- I love that That's a great term how um in how you wanna work with them because it both are just so important.
[DAVITHA TILLER]
I think it's also you know uh 'cause that's that is such a great point. like uh try before you buy type thing and knowing that you work well together, but also you know we talked about relationships with agents before and having like dialogue with them and relationship with them that sits outside of just the negotiation part which is...you know the value of any relationship right, is that you have something together outside of when you work together. And so I think that that makes sense, but it's the same with influencers. Like really understanding what what their long long-term goals are like what their vision is for their own brand right 'Cause they each individually have their own brand, and they're trying to take that to a certain place. And so if you're a brand that is looking to really be like uh uh dial up the expertise right and that's your long-term vision then you'll wanna align yourselves with partners who sit in that space and who wanna grow with you in that space. So I think it just depends on what the ambition for the brand is and matching that up with the long-term ambitions for the influencers, whereas if it's a short-term partnership around a certain campaign that is maybe more like comical than something you've done before or that you typically do then you obviously wanna partner with influencers who have that tonality and can match that you know so Or topical.
[NICOLE SCHUMAN]
Great Well this has been awesome.
Produced by: PRNEWS